This is a very important point. It's all too easy now. If you think about Punk and House, they both came on the back of hard, depressing times in the UK and a stagnated or non-existent club scene. You couldn't have a drink after 11pm in a pub. Night clubs shut at 2pm and by and large were just places to go and get a late drink. In this context the Hacienda was a trailblazer as it not only set a benchmark in design standards, it also expanded musical boundaries. If it is going to take another period of hard times to produce something like that again then the current economical climate might bring about a chance of that happening.
FAC251 - The Factory
- Thread starter adamw
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This is a very important point. It's all too easy now. If you think about Punk and House, they both came on the back of hard, depressing times in the UK and a stagnated or non-existent club scene. You couldn't have a drink after 11pm in a pub. Night clubs shut at 2pm and by and large were just places to go and get a late drink. In this context the Hacienda was a trailblazer as it not only set a benchmark in design standards, it also expanded musical boundaries. If it is going to take another period of hard times to produce something like that again then the current economical climate might bring about a chance of that happening.
Welcome to the board btw :$ :$
Completely agree. And for that reason the "FAC front" is where this is going wrong.
As a music venue, I stand by that I would prefer this than more apartments. If nothing else, it should be used as a catalyst for change/backlash against this "theme park" mentality.
If history has taught us anything, its all about patience and perseverance. Sticking to your guns, not following a crowd.
When it first opened, wasn't The Hacienda practically a ghost town most weeks? Mike Pickering playing to an empty floor when he launched his first House nights etc.
The Hacienda was only a "shell" and as you rightly mention "Manchester" wasn't just about there either.
The time has been ripe for ages imho. Tony W used to talk about pop culture moving in cycles. My personal view is things have changed too much as to allow such big culture shifts like punk and "rave" to ever happen again.
What is certain, what will come next will be very different...
Mart
Shooms
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I forgot to welcome Abstract too... sorry fella :$ And welcome - great posts
Mart... I know what you mean about cycles... each decade since the turn of the century... or certainly since the 50's & the 'invention' of the teenager... has had it's epoch or genre musical moment... I just can't see what's about since 2000 though... unless you count 'grime' or dubstep ?
There's been no youth movement though that underpinned every other musical r/evolution... are the youth of today (oooh get me !) so materialistic & apathetic they can't be arsed being rowdy & going against the mainstream & therefore is IS no musical movement to speak of ?
Mart... I know what you mean about cycles... each decade since the turn of the century... or certainly since the 50's & the 'invention' of the teenager... has had it's epoch or genre musical moment... I just can't see what's about since 2000 though... unless you count 'grime' or dubstep ?
There's been no youth movement though that underpinned every other musical r/evolution... are the youth of today (oooh get me !) so materialistic & apathetic they can't be arsed being rowdy & going against the mainstream & therefore is IS no musical movement to speak of ?
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Only one nose would do wouldn't it?
PS Mart... that Boys Own book is the best read for a very very long time... some right gems in the tune charts too
Agreed, best book I've bought in years. Lol and the charts, I spent a good day flicking between youtube and Discogs 
Would love to see one put together of "The End".
Mart
I forgot to welcome Abstract too... sorry fella :$ And welcome - great posts
Mart... I know what you mean about cycles... each decade since the turn of the century... or certainly since the 50's & the 'invention' of the teenager... has had it's epoch or genre musical moment... I just can't see what's about since 2000 though... unless you count 'grime' or dubstep ?
There's been no youth movement though that underpinned every other musical r/evolution... are the youth of today (oooh get me !) so materialistic & apathetic they can't be arsed being rowdy & going against the mainstream & therefore is IS no musical movement to speak of ?
I more or less said exactly the same thing the other day. The Noughties (hate that term) is the first decade since the 1950's to have no real youth culture linked to a new kind of music. I suppose it is getting harder to come up with new ideas . . . .or are there too many people with no imagination. . .discuss.
Shooms
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& any correlation with the rise of donk ?
Every generation has always had a lost generation.
Big question, obviously the last major movement was also inspired by the creation and use of electronic instruments, I used to be really into bands like Kraftwerk when I was a still a young teenager. That step forward in technology opened doors to exploiting amazing possibilities, just as the electric guitar did before that.
Nowadays, the greatest thing to have happened in the refinement of electronic instruments and music, in other words "digital". Whilst digital technology is a great thing, it hasn't and cannot move things forward in the way that the initial introduction of electronic instruments did.
I guess if I could answer the question, I would be out there actually doing something about it right now instead of chatting about it on here, but I think your right, it's getting harder to come up with unique and new ideas these days.
It's not helped these days of course by greedy corporate publishing companies who continually regurgitate the same music over and over again by means of get famous quick routines like X Factor and Pop Stars. Some poor and extremely naive karaoke singer gets exploited and fronts a re-released 80's single making millions for someone like BMG out of something they own the entire rights to before disappearing as quickly as they arrived.
Hopefully though, the sheer pain of putting up with crap like this, and the general climate that is in existence may bear fruit in the end. God only knows what it will be though.
I think digital has moved things forward . People who love the so called nowadays mainstream music are people who do not enjoy music as much as others who grew up wanting to learn about it & hear more of it. Music is like a hobbie so 2 speak . Good music is good music , your ears either like it or dont
What is there left to rebel against in the Western "pop" world?
I do believe the opression and consequent liberation of values in sexual and racial relations; or just even greater openess in discussing darker feelings (than had been discussed before). Coupled with the advances in communications media over the last 60 years.
And as said the digitisation of instruments.
Further complicated by an ageing population, where it's not just the kids that want to have fun, and so focus on youth and it's culture has been watered down. Has got us to this priveleged/confused point in our society.
The things left to rebel against and sing about just are not that sexy or "pop".
Down with the bankers.
Save the Staffordshire pit bull.
Woe is me because I have syphiliticalnobicus and there is no self help group in my local library until Thursday.
My street corner is full of hoodies, but we could really make the place a lot nicer if we picked up some rubbish...
Nice post. And welsome Abstract.
There'll be something come again I'm sure of it. In fact it might be on a bigger scale this time because of the internet, because people are making tunes in their bedroom and burning them to a CD and playing them out at the time.That may well be this generation's Kraftwerk. Like sampling was to hip hop and early house.
Then the money men will get hold of it and it'll spiral downwards.
I'm personally loving the nu disco and new balaeric stuff at the minute, and I think Greg Wilson has got people thinking about edits again, 30 years on which arguably helped drive the house movement.
There's a great video online somewhere of Tony Wilson and fro memory he says the following:-
New movements usually start with artists/creative types
They usually get seized upon by poorer/working class kids
They usually coincide with a new 'drug'
They usually begin in inner cities
They're usually driven by hope and positive emotions
I'd add another, and that's that they never appear out of nowhere, or from a vaccuum, there's always a careful build up beforehand. I wonder if the disco/edit throwback is the beginning of less self conscious clubbing, a bit more positivity, a bit more fun.
House is a feeling after all.
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Agreed. The whole thing is built on nothing but pure nostalgia.
Whilst The Hacienda was one f*cking awsome club, lets get things into perspective a little.
3- Hooky, Bez and which ever other so called DJ's they keep advertising on these "Hacienda Presents" nights, never spun a f*cking piece of vinyl in a club during the entire course of the acid/dance revolution, so why now? Manchester was always a tale of two halves, the emerging acid and house revolution and the Indie/Rock scene that emerged. Hooky and Bez were parts of very different areas, certainly no major influence in the acid/dance/house revolution so what the f*ck is the DJ'ing about? Parky, Wainwright, DaSilva etc. a different story but who the f*uck is Hooky trying to be, stick to yer bass.
this is just my penny worth but i think one great and famous DJ gets over looked in the madchester scene and that id DJ NIPPER who was one of the original originators of the manchester house music scene way before the likes of Sasha and co playing house music in the mid 80s and who was a resident at the hac too and its never talked about or documented he was ?,
this is just my penny worth but i think one great and famous DJ gets over looked in the madchester scene and that id DJ NIPPER who was one of the original originators of the manchester house music scene way before the likes of Sasha and co playing house music in the mid 80s and who was a resident at the hac too and its never talked about or documented he was ?,
Agreed, he is under appreciated. As are "The Jam MC's"
Is there anyone else here who used to go to the Kitchen's in Manchester before it burned down.
LOL, just on a side note, I made a couple of comments regarding FAC251 on their Facebook page, they deleted them....
Obviously can't face the FAC's
