High On Hope: Could YOU make it happen?

[adamw]

Right peeps, here's the latest on this....

Today I've been talking to Piers Sanderson the guy who's behind the whole project and he tells me that the basic footage is "in the can" and just requires some post-production to reach a finished edit.

The main obstacle to moving this project forward (and therefore eventually seeing the light of day) is the music. What he wants to do is use around 16 tracks as a backdrop to the footage, but to do this he needs to license them from the relevant publishing companies. They are all original underground warehouse classics of the day so if you went to these events you'll have a good idea of what they might be. This is going to cost around £5,000 a track which means he needs to raise around £80,000 to make this film happen.

An impossible task?
Maybe, but there are various ways that this can be achieved and we discussed this at length this afternoon...
Rather than just print them out for you now and canvass opinions, I want to know what you think would be the best way of raising this money?

And don't forget any sponsor or investor in this project would be taking a risk but if the film proves popular they would likely get a big return on their outlay...

I'm told there have been a number of very small-scale private screenings so far and everyone has agreed they get goosebumps watching it....

So over to you... let's have your ideas on how we could get the money together and make this film happen.... and what a story this could be!!! The people who were there at the original events making a vital contribution to getting the film out - I reckon that would be an amazing twist and a great ending to this, what do you think???

OK, thinking caps on and let's see what you come back with....

And if you haven't seen the link yet then watch this.... High n Hope

 

[ikontraband]

sounds ace

which 16 tracks is it ? as to save ££ mabey it could be whittled down to 12-14 tracks , also im sure 1 or 2 of the original artists may be willing to wave either the whole or part of the fee / advance ? take a cut or bigger % of future profits , just an idea


another idea which is pretty obvious is to have some old skool events to raise cash + awareness of the whole project , id poss be up for doing something im sure loads of other promotors/shop owners ect would be interested

 

[blue jammer]

a sponsored drug-a-thon

 

[Mr Radish]

I agree with Ians point. . . .that the original artists should give generously to this. . . .They should waive the fee and if the film makes money take some then.

The rights are probably owned by people other than the original artist and that's probably where the "Suits" say no.:|


Not sure how we could raise money. . . .I'm selling my house. . . .but I need somewhere to live!

 

[ikontraband]

a sponsored drug-a-thon

ha ha , in the Jockey , ask FRANK

 

[Barrie Jay]

a sponsored drug-a-thon

That will raise enough with cash to spare for........more drugs yeaaaaaaaaah!!

Sent you a pm to see if my contacts can be of any help Adam.

 

[adamw]

The rights are probably owned by people other than the original artist and that's probably where the "Suits" say no.:|

Correct.
It's not the artists it's the publishing companies who own the rights to these tracks.

... Already getting some good responses and PMs on this, keep 'em coming!!!

 

[oldskoolranger]

does it have to be originals? couldn't they use old school sounding music? bit of a cheat, but better than having to raise £80k

 

[Shooms]

Great idea Adam

I'm intrigued... what happens when a w/l gets signed to a major... is the major eligible for any & all revenue in perpetuity ?

I'm guessing Together - Hardcore Uproar will be used ? So does FFRR get the final say rather than Suddi ? Irrespective whether it was originally printed on Thumbs Up ?

I would also deffo hope that Hardcore Uproar - High on hope is used

 

[derekhzll]

there is sponsorship to be had , i know a very well known dj got 30k for his sound system at the notting hill carnival... best of luck with this, i hope it gets the funding it needs.

 

[U31]

Ian's on the money, but howabout the writing talent on here or out there in the world, writing a score that sounds "oldskool"?
That avoids the suits alltogether.

 

[PepeLePew]

I'm probably wrong.... but what if the original artist played a live version of the song... would that negate the publishing companies?
Assuming that they would do this - vested interests

 

[Barrie Jay]

It all depends on who owns the performance rights and the songwriting rights.

For example, FFRR may well have released Hardcore Uproar but it depends on the terms of the contract whether they simply licensed the tune or actually bought both the performance rights and the songwriting rights.

I feel sure that even using original material this could be done for far less than £80K.

 

[Shooms]

It all depends on who owns the performance rights and the songwriting rights.

For example, FFRR may well have released Hardcore Uproar but it depends on the terms of the contract whether they simply licensed the tune or actually bought both the performance rights and the songwriting rights.

I feel sure that even using original material this could be done for far less than £80K.

That's really interesting... cheers Barrie

Also... what down the definition of the songwriting / arrangement rights ?

For example the w/l of Sub Sub - Space Face is discernably different to the Ten records release... so if that was used would it be classed as a different tune contractually ?

Bring in Michael Mansfield lol

 

[U31]

Good point Shoomington!

 

[simzzzz]

not sure how it works for music ( i know a small bit about photography copyrights ), but take into consideration where the film would be released and seen. Is it only in the UK? as copyright laws are different in other countries. I know my missus uses new commercial music ( not old skool rave stuff so maybe different ) in her programs for BBC and anything from USA is a nightmare to get clearance to use and costs a hell of a lot more.

Also as an example of different copyright laws.. Using a photograph over here in the UK the person who actually owns the image (doesnt have to be the person who made it or is featured in it as you can buy the rights) is the one who gets paid, but over in NYC if you are gaining money from selling that image then the person in the image can also claim money fromyou. So best to double check and triple check on where you plan on showing it, believe me i have been done for copyrights in the past and its not worth the hasle.:$

 

[Silky]

i know we have enough stickys in Chillout already but this thread should also be one.

I reckon Adam is going to need all the help he can get.

I cant offer any useful advice on this but Shooms made a good point about using White Label versions that are slightly diff than ones that were released on Labels.

If i have any your after give me a shout and ill WAV them for ya

Best of Luck on this, this would be awesome for Old Skool!

 

[Barrie Jay]

That's really interesting... cheers Barrie

Also... what down the definition of the songwriting / arrangement rights ?

For example the w/l of Sub Sub - Space Face is discernably different to the Ten records release... so if that was used would it be classed as a different tune contractually ?

Bring in Michael Mansfield lol

If it was performed by the same people then they would own both performance rights - and, of course, the songwriting (publishing) rights remain the same no matter what the arrangement.

It can be better explained if someone does a cover version.

Whoever did the original owns the performance rights for that.

Whoever did the cover version owns the performance rights for thier version.

The songwriting rights would be the same.

The performance rights and the songwriting rights could be licensed or sold on or even given to an agent. The original owners have the right to do that.

For example = Northern Records (who owned the Beatles early catalogue) was bought by Michael Jackson - so he owns the songwriting rights - so none of the Beatles get any money for the publishing rights, it all goes to him.

Within the UK we have two societies that protect the interests of both.

The MCPS (Mechanical and Copyright Protection Society) look after the songwririting rights.

The PRS (Performing Rights Society) look after public peformance rights.

For example any venue playing music in public (such as a shop or nightclub) has to have a valid PRS license. The money recouped is given to the members of the PRS - a portion of which goes to the MCPS.

All radio (including the BBC) have to pay for each tune they play - as this is logged the money is passed to the PRS and MCPS to whoever owns the copyright and songwriting rights.

Interesting snippet - the publishing rights to the song `Happy Birthday To You` last changed hands for over $25 million. Everytime that song is used in the world in a film or on Radio or TV the owners get their publishing fee.

 

[Shooms]

Barrie - as ever - you are the oracle Thanks.

I don't want to hijack the thread anymore just for own curiosity BUT is it normal to have a flat fee as a remix so the publishing rights remain with the original artist and / or label ? Thinking specfically about remixes that are so different to the base tune they could be considered original works in their own right...

Or is that a can of worms lol

 

[adamw]

Shooms. re: can of worms. yes, probably. ...and remixers do normally get a flat fee, you'd be surprised at how low in some cases.

OK. everyone seems to be getting hung up on the technicalities of copyright here so thanks to Barrie and Simmzz for making some important points about why and how it works and what can happen if you try and dodge it, plus the difficult USA and worldwide rights scenario...

The sentiments of using re-recorded music to avoid paying are good but it would be like walking round the supermarket to one of them Top of the Pops LPs that they used to do in the 70's and 80's for the same reasons ie it would be crap...
As far as I'm concerned, if this film is to be authentic it HAS to use the original tracks or there would be no point.

I'm going to be speaking to Piers further about this shortly, the first request I'll be making is for a list of the 16 tracks and then we'll see what that means in terms of publishing. It may be that all the material is owned by 2 or three publishers so I'll report back once I've got this info...

Thanks for all the contributions so far - good work!