Jonno said:
Btw Sirius - in answer to ruffers question: what has the fact he is an asylum seeker got to do with the case? Are you saying simply that he shouldn't have been here in the first place, therefore any crimes committed thereafter should be viewed much more seriously than anyone else committing the same crime?
Also as you've expanded this to the usual Muslim / illegal immigrant / send em back to where they come from diatribe, I'll speak about that one as well. As far as I see, as a country, we need to break down and address these prejudices. We need to see statistically whether more muslims (or any other race) are abusing the system. It's no good getting out facts from bloke in the pub or isolated incidents. That leads to bigotry.
As a side note, whilst we're on the subject. Sirius, I know in an earlier thread, you have said that Muslims shouldn't be thought of as individuals they should be thought of as a "unit". In that case you are pre-judging a person before you meet them. That is most definitely bigotry.
Jonno. Really, you need to wake up a bit.
Actually, yeah, in THIS case, this isolated case, the fact he was an asylum seeker who has been denied
4 TIMES already and shouldnt have been here does matter. Im not saying all asylum seekers shouldnt be here, youre twisting that one, Im just talking about this person in this case.
Am I suggesting that for any other case or offense it would be different for an asylum seeker, not necessarily no, but in THIS single incident, yes. If he had BEEN an accepted Asylum seeker, legitimate, been working and had full driving license for years, full tax, mot, insurance etc but was caught drink driving, then I conclude that the fact he was an asylum seeker has no major relevance.
In THIS occurance, the fact that he should have been deported after his first appeal would have meant that it is almost certain that this individual would not have killed this little lad. Sure, he may have died at the hands of somebody else, but, the fact is it was him, who not only shouldnt have been here after being denied 4 times, but shouldnt have been driving at all and was simultaneously screwing the system when the tragedy occured. Also, it appears that he wasnt 'fleeing' anybody and the Asylum claim was likely to be suspect in the first place.
Okay, nobody knows the exact scenario of the accident, but come on, the law is being made an ass, and quite frankly, it DOES have a bearing on the case as to whether its a 'sensitive' matter considering the offenders status. Maybe not in rule, Im not sure, but nether the less that institutions and laws do shy away from harsh sentances given to certain individuals in fear of an outcry. Thats how it is.
> Diatribe? Oh, its a simple brush-a-way 'diatribe' is it?, thats convenient. Lets simply side step every disturbing issue as a nonsensical 'diatribe' by a foolish 'bigot'.
That tactic is getting a tad thin now with you leftwingers.
You really need to educate yourself as to what I am talking about, because for a starter my concern is not 'muslims' abusing the system and never has been. You seem to have no idea whatsoever, which is suprising for somebody who allways champions everybody elses cause. Its not uncommon though, youre not alone.
"It's no good getting out facts from bloke in the pub or isolated incidents".
Are you a complete fool or what? You keep coming out with this comment at me, and usually follows on from some 'Sun' reader jibe. Do you honestly think I base any idea's on the tabloid media or some local redneck in a Pub?
. For goodness sake, give me some credit. Youre prejudicing me as some paranoid redneck who just doesnt like poeple cos they 'look different' or something, for frig sake Jonno, wake up and smell the freshly ground aroma of coffee thats being brewed before our eyes. In your opinion, its convenient that every case is an 'isolated case' and that any problems in society are always 'a small minute portion'. Im afraid you dont have those facts, much as I dont, so dont give me all that 'small minority' bullshit, its an unkown, and unquantifiable and unmeasurable unknown thats left to spiral out of control as such an 'unknown' entity.
Just cos its distastefull to be cutting with things, and maybe slightly over zealous and sarcastic on my part, does NOT mean that its all 'unfounded nonsense' and not happening, or that serious aspects of this life exist that are extremely complex and also carry an undertone that parallels far deeper than a main story's topic. Also for your information, Islam is NOT a race.
Poeple like you think that the Islamic Dress case today is simply about a piece of cloth and human rights
. Christ. So simplistic.
I think you also misunderstand what I was meaning with the 'unit'. Its all very well being individualistic, but its useless in a wider view of a long term issue. Ofcourse people are individuals, but nevertheless, the individual is part of a wider action and a wider community. Its not hard to grasp. Ofcourse things should be dealt on an individual basis where appropriate, BUT you HAVE to look at the wider rammifications and meanings of any individual case for the wider 'community' long term.
I know its a strange analogy, but a flood is made of raindrops right, now each seperate individual raindrop cannot be solely blamed for causing the flood. Each one cannot help simply fall from the sky to the ground, and it shouldnt be fair to pinpoint individual raindrops for the effects of the flood, but, nevertheless, the flood happens, becuase all these small individuals summount to a wider entity in itself - a rain storm.
You may not agree with that, its a bit strange, but thats how I feel sometimes. I may be a bigot in your eyes, a racist, uneducated, foolish, redneck who listens to drunken exaggeration down some sort of gritty lancashire pub. Thats your prejudice opinion of me, and youre entitled to it. You are wrong about most of that.
Also, so its okay to brand a whole institution racist though in your eyes? Like the police force or prisons or government or councils, schools etc can be institutionaly racist and targetted as a group, but other aspects in society cannot?. Surely each person in the institution should be treated as an individual, and NO sweeping statements should be made. Hmmmn. Different when its pro every f'cker else isnt it?.
Okay, in your opinions I go too far, and you think I read to much into things, but also its fair to say you DONT look into things enough that you dont want to concieve as a concept, and you need to pull your head out of the UAF, ANL and SWP websites once in a while.
Sirius.
